tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post3947458769559489673..comments2024-03-28T01:04:21.897-06:00Comments on Gossamer Obsessions: Rant Rant Rant - Sex in RomanceAnimeJunehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18229748454410488167noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-40997827910645228522009-05-06T14:19:00.000-06:002009-05-06T14:19:00.000-06:00Just to pick up on the question of Silhouettes, si...Just to pick up on the question of Silhouettes, since I'm late to the conversation, in the <A HREF="http://www.eharlequin.com/articlepage.html?articleId=1102&chapter=0" REL="nofollow">guidelines for the Harlequin Romance line</A>, which replaced the Mills & Boon Tender Romance line and is called "Mills & Boon Romance" in the UK, and merged the Silhouette Romance and Harlequin Romance lines in the US, it says that:<br /><br />"Couples can make love — before marriage, just as they do in real-life, but this should be within an emotional context and not described explicitly. It's fine to shut the bedroom door and leave them to it! However, if you don't feel comfortable with your characters making love before marriage, that's fine, too."Laura Vivancohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00906661869372622821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-56060621558470013532009-05-04T14:52:00.000-06:002009-05-04T14:52:00.000-06:00Vorkosgrrl --> about Diane Farr - REALLY? She d...Vorkosgrrl --> about Diane Farr - REALLY? She didn't get published because she wouldn't put sex scenes in? That's terrible! I head that Lynn Kurland had similar problems with her editors - but her books sold well, so I guess she was given a pass.<br /><br />Really, that's terrible. You know, a lot of times it seems the parts of romance that are the most made fun of (the cheesy titles, cover art, and sex scenes) are exactly the parts of romance that are out of the authors' hands and are dictated by other people! What's up with that?AnimeJunehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18229748454410488167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-31177764014242869852009-04-28T14:26:00.000-06:002009-04-28T14:26:00.000-06:00Great post, AnimeJune! There are writers I've sto...Great post, AnimeJune! There are writers I've stopped reading, because of the fact that their sex scenes are about as emotionally involving as, "Insert tab A into slot B. Repeat every few pages." It just becomes so much yadda-yadda-yadda. <br /><br />Your point about the historical setting is well taken. I started out reading Georgette Heyer (who didn't?), and I was Shocked -- Shocked, I say! -- to start exploring other authors and seeing how the mores and culture of the time are sometimes completely ignored. Why does almost EVERY historical heroine engage in pre-marital sex? A great deal of the fun of reading an historical novel is to feel transported to another time and place. <br /><br />I totally agree that the writing is the most important thing. A good writer can make anything work. The only question is, can she get published? I believe Diane Farr (my favorites of hers is The Fortune Hunter and Under a Lucky Star) stopped getting published because she doesn't write sex scenes. But boy, nobody writes Desire like Diane Farr, IMHO.Vorkosigrrlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-39733609905422945382009-04-22T11:51:00.000-06:002009-04-22T11:51:00.000-06:00"Lisa Kleypas, while she writes some excellent sce..."Lisa Kleypas, while she writes some excellent scenes, is one of the worst offenders of pointless sex scenes."<br /><br />Stephanie Laurens is another one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-84353859713261108512009-04-22T08:52:00.000-06:002009-04-22T08:52:00.000-06:00Meghan --> Exactly. Whenever I come across an h...Meghan --> Exactly. Whenever I come across an historical whose plot has something about an infamous brothel and how a woman wants to sate her fantasies or whatever I just put it right down. I don't even read it. There's definitely room for sexual stories in literature, but it's not to my taste, and I dislike the fact that sex scenes (particularly in historical romance) now seem to be, well, arbitrary - as if put in to meet some sort of quota.<br /><br />Laura --> I know that Inspired romances don't have sex in them, but I haven't heard of that Silhouette line. <br /><br />But yes, I want the sex scenes to have a point and to be about emotion. With few exceptions, I always get a little irked by historical romances where the heroine jumps into bed with the hero within the first chapter for some ridiculously anachronistic reason - like, "I deserve one night of passion," and I want to scream "WHO TOLD YOU THAT? WHO GAVE YOU THAT EXPECTATION?" I mean REALLY!<br /><br />Mike --> Eh, I'd rather not put an explicitness grade. Generally, I review and enjoy books based on how well-written they are, and sexual explicitness isn't really a factor on how well written a book is. If the level of sexuality in a book is consistent with the theme and beautifully written and fits in the plot, it won't bother me, usually, so I don't bother to mention it. Besides, I already have so many doodads on my reviews I don't want to add another one. Thanks, anyway.<br /><br />As to noticing the lack of sex in "Just the Sexiest Man Alive," - that's the thing, I DIDN'T. The story was so complete and well written that I never felt anything was missing.<br /><br />I also have to tell you that "very explicitness" is not the standard, I should think, from what I've read. They're certainly increasing in number (examples - hoo boy Elizabeth Hoyt), but the general description of sex scenes I've come across is relatively descriptive but not graphically so, I should think. <br /><br />And NO - I don't think that explicitness guarantees a romance is a romance. NOT AT ALL. That's what my entire post was about.<br /><br />Anonymous --> Same here, I prefer sweet romances. However, if the sex has a definite point to the story, I can enjoy that too. ^_^<br /><br />Kristie J --> Yes - that's what I hate. Arbitrary sex scenes. They usually come in somewhere around the end and seem to be there because the author forgot she needed a sex scene. One of the worst examples was "Gilding the Lady" by Nicole Byrd - the hero and heroine, a chapter away from the end, decide to have sex WHILE TRAPPED IN A ROOM COVERED IN DYNAMITE because they think they have only an hour to live. How contrived!<br /><br />Lisa Kleypas, while she writes some excellent scenes, is one of the worst offenders of pointless sex scenes. Gee, if only her books ONLY had two of those - usually they have, like, six or seven! If the hero and heroine are horny, fine, just don't describe EVERY TIME THEY DO IT! <br /><br />Amy --> welcome to the blog! I have to say, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who doesn't feel disappointed when the protagonists don't have a sex scene. Sometimes I doubt and wonder if I'm reading the right genre if the general opinion is sex scenes are necessary. Over at Eloisa james' messageboard I brought up the subject once and a bunch of users said they felt cheated if they didn't get to read the hero and heroine have sex, and I just didn't understand it.AnimeJunehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18229748454410488167noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-15234616464064330562009-04-21T20:47:00.000-06:002009-04-21T20:47:00.000-06:00I agree that romances don't have to have sex scene...I agree that romances don't have to have sex scenes to be romances. ha. Kind of funny to assume they do. <br /><br />I read a lot of Christian romance (I read romance with explicit sex scenes as well) and those stories can be just as romantic without the explicit sex. What's most important to me in romance is that the writing keeps me engaged and that I want hero and heroine together and happy.<br /><br />Anyway, interesting post and thanks to Meghan for pointing it out to me!Amyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02515314638093018928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-57399276670330690122009-04-21T20:37:00.000-06:002009-04-21T20:37:00.000-06:00I read this one a while ago and had to go back to ...I read this one a while ago and had to go back to the review I did to see what I said about the lack of sex scenes - and low and behold I didn't even mention that there weren't any. I knew going in that there wasn't going to be any as I read it on another blog but this fact wasn't a part of the review.<br />Now - in trying to follow my own thinking here whilst I type this out - the fact that I didn't even mention this fact (except for a tepid rating in which I DID say I often very much enjoy coffee or tea when it's cooled down, the fact that I didn't say anything else and gave this book a 4.5, proves that, for me, no indeed, a romance does NOT need sex in to be considered a pretty damn good romance.<br />When I first came back to romance after a hiatus of a number of years, my Very Favourite author was Patricia Veryan and there was NO sex in her books and yet I found them to be very, very romantic and unquestionably "romance" books. On the opposite end, I've read books where the book has included a sex scene or two and they were so awkwardly written and came seemingly out of nowhere that I actually downgraded the mark BECAUSE of the added sex scene. I felt the book would have been much stronger without it.Kristie (J)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15743921647882733738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-33908561522082994842009-04-21T18:59:00.000-06:002009-04-21T18:59:00.000-06:00a reflection of my own choicesa <I>reflection</I> of my own choicesMike Sylwesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09987402330015664312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-16191001865102675482009-04-21T17:43:00.000-06:002009-04-21T17:43:00.000-06:00I probably should retract my comment about explici...I probably should retract my comment about explicit novels becoming the standard. <br /><br />My opinion probably is a relection of my own choices when I do read such novels.Mike Sylwesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09987402330015664312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-37147290749230932182009-04-21T16:34:00.000-06:002009-04-21T16:34:00.000-06:00"I read few romance novels, but I have the impress..."I read few romance novels, but I have the impression that the very-explicit quality has become the standard."<br /><br />Mike,<br /><br />Very explicit is not standard. Julia Quinn is a leader in historical romance, and some of her books contain only one sex scene, and often it's not that explicit. When I finished reading Mr. Cavendish I Presume, I thought, "There were no sex scenes in this book. Oh wait, yes there was." It was a strange love scene, but I wouldn't call it explicit, and it was a small part of the novel compared to everything else that was going on.<br /><br />I don't like overly explicit love scenes anyway. I like sweet romances.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-81518923708320077322009-04-21T16:08:00.000-06:002009-04-21T16:08:00.000-06:00Since you, AnimeJune, do review romance fiction fo...Since you, AnimeJune, do review romance fiction for so many readers, I suggest that you inform your readers about each novel's sexual explicitness. <br /><br />A three-grade scale would suffice, such as A) not explicit, B) explicit, C) very explicit.<br /><br />I assume that each reader has some preferences. As you read in those other reviews, some readers do not like not-explicit novels, and certainly some readers do not like very explicit novels. <br /><br />Since you are spending the time and effort to read and review a novel, you might as well provide that information, which most readers would appreciate. That doesn't mean that you have to address that quality further in your review.<br /><br />I'm curious: When you wrote that particular review, did the thought occur to you that the novel's non-explicitness was unusual and that you should mention this novelty in your review? Were you really so suprised that other reviewers would make such an issue about it? <br /><br />I read few romance novels, but I have the impression that the very-explicit quality has become the standard. If the novel is non-explicit or just moderately explicit, then the novel might be considered to be some other genre -- perhaps rather an ordinary historical novel, an artsy novel, a light-fiction novel, a detective novel or something else besides a romance novel.Mike Sylwesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09987402330015664312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-90202889005164970012009-04-21T13:12:00.000-06:002009-04-21T13:12:00.000-06:00I don't think a book needs to have a sex scene to ...I don't think a book needs to have a sex scene to be considered a romance. There are Christian/inspirational romances that don't contain sex scenes. And Silhouette has (or used to have) a line of books that didn't have sex scenes. Does that mean they weren't romances? Not at all. They were still romantic stories.<br /><br />I'd rather read a book with no sex scenes than a book where the characters have sex just to have sex.<br /><br />And I agree with Meghan--I too read romance novels for the emotional pull and the love story.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7348815.post-76164813606360640682009-04-21T12:41:00.000-06:002009-04-21T12:41:00.000-06:00Great, great, great post. I've been lurking aroun...Great, great, great post. I've been lurking around your blog for a while but you inspired me to comment because I completely agree with you. Sex is nice and everything, but it's usually unnecessary and as you say, can be boring. It's one thing to use it to further the plot or if it happens once or twice to show how the characters feel, it's another if the romance is based around the physical rather than emotional relationship. That's one of my biggest issues with romance sometimes. I don't mind at all if the author chooses not to include it or if they only mention that it happened. It perplexes me that someone would downgrade a book just because it didn't have overtly described sex. Everyone's tastes are different, but I thought erotica was the genre that was guaranteed sex all the time, not an ordinary romance. Most have it, but the absence isn't something that bothers me, and I applaud authors who can write believable love without resorting to only physical temptations.<br /><br />I'm not going to lie, I enjoy a well-written sex scene as much as the next girl, but I read these for emotional pull and for the love story, not because I want to read sex scenes.Meghanhttp://chikune.com/blognoreply@blogger.com